Religion

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:25 pm

In an earlier post, Andy00 noticed that Subaru is shown praying Western-style with interlocked fingers during episode 23. She's also prominently displayed on the cover of the second OST in the same position.

Hmm...is Subaru Christian?

This topic never really went anywhere, and I'd like to discuss it here. There's a good deal of potential religious symbolism in .hack. Most of what I can think of revolves around Tsukasa - he transcends reality Buddhist-style (although the World isn't exactly a Nirvana to him ...), he sacrifices himself to save Mimiru and is reborn (although through the powers of an evil omnipotent power, not a good one ...). Aura's domain could be seen as an electronic Eden - with Tsukasa as the serpent trying to corrput her. I'm a bit fuzzier on the Shinto religion, so I won't even try to analyze that. Anybody else got an insight?

Baka Deshi · Post by **Baka Deshi** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:52 pm

I'll agree with you on your symbolism statement, but Subaru being Christian is something I don't see. I mean it IS possible, but I think it just might be a coincidence that she prays like that. I guess it's because I just can't imagine her being Christian, this idea is one I have never heard and it surprises me.

Aura's Domain as Eden is one I can see, but it does go "evil" later on and I don't see why that can be an "Eden."

I have no clue about the Shinto religionn so I can't post any thoughts on that.

Rogue_Noir · Post by **Rogue_Noir** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:15 pm

Didn't Subaru say, in Ep 10, that "Meetings were created by God but Separation by man"?

Andy00 · Post by **Andy00** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:44 pm

It should be noted that Aura is _fully_ born (Tsukasa just starts the process) on Christmas Day, as noted in Liminality 4. Digital Messiah? <g> Bee Train is amusing themselves here.

It would not be the first time Bee Train have played with similar ideas. The origins of the secret group Soldats in the anime Noir were a heretical Christian group that were persecuted 1000 years ago via Inquisition.

Although naturally I don't think Subaru is part of this organization. <g>

But if you don't think she is Christian, what exactly do you think she was doing on her knees, eyes closed, hands interlocked in the church in episode 23? She doesn't role-play, and I don't know of any Buddhist or Shinto religion that prays that way.

Oh, btw. I'm not sure about Subaru"s "who created meetings" expression, but don't hold it as evidence one way or another. Some Shinto/Buddhist do use the term "Kami-Sama" to refer to God. Sometimes this refers to the personalized deity in the Judeo-Christian manner, sometimes refers to the Universe in general, and often it's somewhere in between.

Baka Deshi · Post by **Baka Deshi** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:55 pm

Andy00 wrote:But if you don't think she is Christian, what exactly do you think she was doing on her knees, eyes closed, hands interlocked in the church in episode 23? She doesn't role-play, and I don't know of any Buddhist or Shinto religion that prays that way.

Well like I said, I'm just surprised at the idea. I'm not saying it's not true. It's just something that I can't see.... it's surprising.

[EDIT: Tsukasa- Fixed your quote tags. Look carefully at them next time. ^-^;;;]

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:53 am

In response to Baka Deshi's first response, Aura's realm becomes evil to reflect her own nature. As she is corrupted by Tsukasa, so does the field around them corrupt. Once she is fully gone to the dark influences, Aura is stolen away to Morgana's realm to be awakened - the same way Eve was cast from Eden to be "awakened" into the knowledge of good and evil. And in his role as the serpent, Tsukasa is trapped inside the abandoned garden (that's speculative; Genesis never specifies what really happens to the tempter).
Also, I can see some clear lines between the Crimson Knights and the Holy Crusade(s). This would put Subaru and Crim in an interesting position, no?
Just to remind people that the discussion isn't limited to Christianity, I'll end with a quote from the Hindu tradition. In the Bhagavad Gita Shiva says, "I have become Death, destroyer of worlds." I can easily see this quote referring to some characters we all know ...

FireDraconian · Post by **FireDraconian** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:28 am

In the dot hack universe, the world is a lot more connected then it is even now. The World allows people to interact face-to-face even if they live halfway across the globe. Subaru is also a cripple, and it's said many times that she is also an introvert. It's possible she is either a christian or finds that kneeling stance to be a neutral way of beseeching help from a higher power.

Baka Deshi · Post by **Baka Deshi** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:21 am

Cobweb wrote:In response to Baka Deshi's first response, Aura's realm becomes evil to reflect her own nature. As she is corrupted by Tsukasa, so does the field around them corrupt. Once she is fully gone to the dark influences, Aura is stolen away to Morgana's realm to be awakened - the same way Eve was cast from Eden to be "awakened" into the knowledge of good and evil. And in his role as the serpent, Tsukasa is trapped inside the abandoned garden (that's speculative; Genesis never specifies what really happens to the tempter).

Well I see it as Tsukasa being Eve, Aura being Adam, and Morganna as the Serpent.

Tsukasa is the one corrupting Aura, Morganna is the one corrupting Tsukasa. After Aura is corrupt though Tsukasa and Aura are cast out. Going their seperate ways. (Not literally)
I mean, Tsukasa gets "tempted" by Macha, a phase of Morganna. Tsukasa and Aura connect and this basically starts the chain of corruption. You know how it ends.

[EDIT: Tsukasa- *whistles after fixing another quote*]

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:59 pm

Of course! That's much less muddy than my theory. It's odd, though, that Maha was chosen to be a cat NPC instead of something more reptilian. Perhaps they didn't want to be too flagrant. I've always wanted to know why the only non-humans in the World are cats. Anybody have an idea? What exactly do the Japanese connect cats with, traditionally?
Hmm. What's interesting to me is the fact that everyone to ever enter Aura's Domain (in SIGN, at least) is female. Subaru, Tsukasa, Maha, Aura, Morgana. Tsukasa's gender is already a confusing issue, so if anyone is going to be Adam perhaps it should be him/her. But that screws EVERYTHING up ...
I can easily accept Subaru being religious in some way; Christian, Shinto, occultist, etc. A few other characters like Mimiru, Bear, and Ginkan, too. But I feel strongly that Tsukasa and BT are athiests.

thedudewhosadude · Post by **thedudewhosadude** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:19 pm

Cobweb 9:59: The whole jap thing with cats? Well, if you have FLCL vol 1, watch the episode preview for ep three. The whole thing is about how anime directors like cats so much because they don't have to take care of them. But how do you go about saying that Tsukasa's atheist? I think that in one episode he said that he was drawn to the temple (Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground)

Cobweb 9:53: Hmm, well the church i used to go to (i'm atheist now) had several stained windows. One of them showed an angel pointing a glowing red sword at dressed Adam and Eve. It also showed a red serpent on the ground next to them. And i think that somewhere in the bible it states that the snake's punishment is to "forever have to crawl on your stomach without legs" Makes no sence to me, unless the serpent had legs before...

Andy00 · Post by **Andy00** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:55 pm

A _possible_ indication of religion was the style of funeral for Tsukasa's mother. With the picture in a curtain. I've seen this before in anime's, I don't know if that implies Shinto or Buddhism though.

Invisible Egg! · Post by **Invisible Egg!** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:18 pm

I think the Japanese like to incorporate elements of foreign religions into their stories. In the way that all of us are so interested in Japanese culture, likewise are they interested in other cultures. You can find pieces of western religions in MANY animes.

FireDraconian · Post by **FireDraconian** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:12 pm

For example, several of the songs in .hack//SIGN are in English, while others are in Japanese. *shrugs* Cross cultural things, world's getting smaller, blah blah blah.

Eggplant of the Twilight · Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:23 am

Soon, the Liminality shall commence! And the inside and outside will be one! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! </crazy Harald Hyuek impression>

I got the feeling that Subaru was just in general prayer. I don't think she's Chrstian persay, rather, she's agnostic who found herself needing a God at that moment.

Andy00 · Post by **Andy00** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:45 pm

I think we all might be projecting ourselves. <g>

I'm including myself in the above.