Theories...
Altimits little secrete
Has anyone ever noticed that the altimit system is 45 percent browser for the internet. Its an entire live stream. Heck it even says connection to server with Id xxxxx or something like that. What I mean is that morgana may be having more influesnse then you think. I mean think about it Big Morgana is Watching. You are always on the internet. I know a little 31337 hacking myself and with the right help I could watch you all with just a webcam on your computer. Plus all the computers in the game had a web cam. Not one didn't except laptops. They also were all dsl or cable. Morgana was alwatys watching you. Thats how she chose her victoms. There was static on one of Tsukasas vid screens while he was crying. Now knowing that to access a windows system there are little loop holes and system processes you can get into to watch that stuff. you half to alter the operating system so I hear but still you can access wb cams. Thats why the system went that way. And Remeber when morgana is present by comptures she aks like a virus eating away at all power. Like in the second coming of plutos kiss and the first and last shots in sign.
In a world were there is nothing but darkness then there must be a world of light
"Never lose hope"
"Never lose hope"
On Levels, Comas, Interpretations, And The Like
Um.. The fact that there are different types of Data Drain has already been established. We all know the Guardians have a weaker type of Data Drain. That doesn't disprove my theory, since it could fit with 'my' theory just as well as it could fit with yours 
If Sora was Data Drained by a guardian, he def. wouldn't fall into a coma. Tsukasa 'died' as a result of the Guardian's data drain, so you see, it depends on who gets Data Drained by what.
Yes, I know Sora wouldn't go into a permanent coma if he was Data Drained by a Guardian. He would just be knocked out for a day or two, like Ginkan was. That's because Guardians have a weaker version of Data Drain than anyone else (except possibly Kite, since he also uses a Twilight Bracelet) has. I don't see how that somehow works better with your other ideas than with mine...
The reason why Morganna said that he was playing the game for too long is because he truly was. He was simply just playing it, he didn't really understand the depth of the Tsukasa situation. He thought of it as just a game. The amount of time you play the world has nothing to do with your data drain-age.
That's just the most obvious interpretation
I know that's the simple explanation for it - Morganna told Sora he'd been playing for so long as a way to mock him, to show him that no matter how strong he becomes he won't be safe from being hurt. That's OBVIOUS. I was just pointing out that, using the theory suggested by Dry in the beginning of this thread, that phrase takes on a double, and very sinister, meaning. You're not impressing me by assuming that I don't understand the basics of the situations. I already KNOW all about the standard, widely-accepted theories regarding Mai's extraordinary hearing protecting her and so on. I'm providing an alternative explanation, and you're doing a poor job of refuting it since you're basically just saying 'you're wrong because this is what I KNOW has to be true.' Just because you know the same common explanations I do for those situations doesn't say anything. You're just saying 'the amount of time you spend in the game has nothing to do with it' over and over again without actually proving or saying a damned thing except what's already been said. You're ASSUMING. If that's all you're going to do in this thread, why bother posting here? It IS a thread for theorizing on things, which is a good idea since it lets us re-address some of the things people have long assumed were facts in .hack even though there are plenty of alternate explanations for them which are pretty equally plausible.
When posting theories, one must be able to back it up with facts. Also, the common reply to my comment is "Wha? Then why didn't Kite and co. fall into comas?" So I was replying before the question.
Well you wasted time doing that. That fact's already been gone over on this thread, and that situation was already explained and discussed in detail. Why would you assume that I didn't know that? So many assumptions...
If you haven't noticed, you're being quite rude. By posting on this board, I'm broadcasting my message to everyone, not just you. How am I supposed to know what you already 'know'?
Because this isn't a new thread and that very thing had already been discussed on this thread? If you're going to broadcast a message to everyone on the board that has absolutely nothing to do with the points I was trying to make, don't confuse me by making me think it's a direct answer.
Sorry if I offended you, though, I'm just baffled. Your reply to my post consisted mainly of backtracking and side-debates and the like.
(1) Kite was chosen by Aura, Helba simply said that she believed that you were the right choice
Wrong. Orca was chosen by Aura. Aura gave the Book to Orca, NOT to Kite. Then Orca was Data Drained, and the Book was given to Kite, and when it seemed that Kite was about to be Data Drained by Skeith, THEN Helba stepped in - she threw her staff in front of Skeith, which caused Skeith to hesitate and either forced Kite to log out or gave him the ability to log out again or he just thought of it then or WHATEVER, but directly because of Helba Kite was able to escape Skeith. So the obvious question is, why didn't Helba save ORCA if she was able to save Kite? I don't buy the explanation that she just didn't arrive in time to save Orca, too easy. I think she was biding her time. Aura's the one who gave it to Orca, and who then guided Kite on his quest after Kite received it, but I think, at least on some level, Helba orchestrated the entire thing. If my theory IS correct, it certainly makes perfect sense why she would do such a thing - because Orca, an experienced player, was too easy of a target for Morganna, whereas Kite would be quite safe early on, even before using the Book of Twilight during his first battle with a Data Bug.
See: http://www.geocities.com/magicyellowsno ... ilight.jpg
Link doesn't work right now. I'll try again later or something..
At the end of //SIGN, Tsukasa is level 5 (the copy of Tsukasa in the games come from after //SIGN) Also, Orca is only level 50. That's only about half-way up! Note that at the end of the game, everyone was put into permanent comas, although they didn't last quite too long. It's true that around then all the characters should be around your level, but what if you're around level 70?
What the heck do you mean 'only level 50'? That's higher-level than most of the players in the game, surely! You don't get to be a legendary hero when you aren't one of the highest-level characters, methinks. But anyway, I didn't say you had to be level 99 (or whatever level Sora is. What level IS he when you recruit him at the end of QUARANTINE?) to be Data Drained I just said that you had to have been playing for a rather long time, unlike Mai and Tokuoka and Kite. Seig was a pretty high-level character (I assume somewhere in the 40s or 50s, but there's no way of finding out as far as I know) based on descriptions of him and such, we KNOW Sora and Orca (and I'll ask again, what about Kazu?) are very high-level, and ... the Tsukasa information is interesting, though. How do you know Tsukasa is level 5 at the end of SIGN? That seems.. rather implausible indeed. The area Tsukasa and Mimiru first meet at is level 38 when you visit it in .hack//MUTATION. Yet Tsukasa and Mimiru meet at (what seems to be) the Gott chest, indicating that Tsukasa cleared the entire dungeon alone! Mimiru even comments on how strong he must be to be clearing a dungeon on his own, so he's probably many levels ABOVE 38 (if the in-game level of that dungeon is at all reliable, that is - .hack game info is notoriously corrupt with inaccuracies planted there to make the game better but which degarde the realism and consistency of the story). If Tsukasa was level 5, that dungeon would probably have to be level 1 or something, and even that would probably be a big challenge for a lone Wavemaster. And Mimiru would probably be level 2 or 3 or 4 at the start of SIGN... eh.. I just don't buy any of that... I'm sure those SIGN characters are at least level 20, and in-game evidence suggests that some (not counting the super-strong Crim and Sora) even go as high as the 40s and 50s... which is perfectly strong enough for Tsukasa, in my theory, to be vulnerable to Data Drain, if Sieg and Orca were.
But, again, what's the source for Tsukasa being level 5? Are you assuming that because the Tsukasa copy you recruit at the end of QUARANTINE starts at level 5? (I haven't beaten QUARANTINE, so I didn't know that.) Still sounds VERY suspicious, it even is an in-game thing which contradicts something else from in the game. Plus there's no evidence that it's an exact copy, isn't it missing lots of things, like memories and such? And since it's a copy, it could be a lower-level version of the actual Tsukasa... *shrug* I just don't see that as concrete evidence, especially in light of Tsukasa apparently clearing an apparently level-38 dungeon in the beginning of SIGN... either that dungeon should be a lower level one and was raised for the sake of it not being too easy for that point in the game, or the Tsukasa copy you recruit at the end of QUARANTINE had his level lowered for some plot reason (like not being an exact copy of Tsukasa, and thus having lower stats) or just for the hell of it 'cause they didn't think about it much.. or something.. Confusing tidbit there, really. If it's true, it's pretty good evidence against my theory If Tsukasa was a complete newbie in SIGN, he probably wouldn't be so vulnerable to Data Drain. But still, I'm suspicious about this... that just doesn't sound right, Tsukasa level 5 in SIGN... He certainly gave the impression of being somewhere in levels between Mimiru and Bear, and although he rarely fights much and isn't too impressive when he does, there are other explanations for that in each situation... BT seems more like a very low-level character than Tsukasa does, since BT relies on other characters for combat and for training and such, although she is pretty impressive when the battles do begin, casting giant shield spells and the like... it's all very confusing, even for someone like me who's thought about the levels of all the .hack characters a LOT...
The point is, levels aren't the determining factor, how long you've played the game is You could play the game for a year and be only at level 5 and you'd still be vulnerable to Data Drain. (And that COULD be the case with Tsukasa, since, as I mentioned, he doesn't seem to play The World to level up and adventure, he just plays it to get away. So he COULD have played for long enough to be vulnerable to DD, but he just still isn't especially strong. But, still.. level 5?! 
That's extreme.). And there's no specific mentioned length of time for how long you need to play to be vulnerable, just a general idea - so what if you ARE level only level 70 when your whole time gets Data Drained? Why the hell wouldn't THAT be high enough level (and, again, more importantly, long enough time - Kite will have played the game for eight or nine months by the end of QUARANTINE. I imagine that would probably be more than long enough for him to become vulnerable to DD, he just has the Bracelet to protect him and his allies by that point), when I've already pointed out that Orca is vulnerable at a 'mere' level 50? The problem is that the whole leveling system is pretty screwed up, no way should you be able to get up to HALF as strong as Kite and his team reaches in only 9 months, not when someone like Balmung who's been playing for YEARS is only level 60. So it's best to rely a bit more on how people treat high-level characters (for example, Sieg must be at least somewhat high-level since he gets called 'awesome' at The World in LIMINALITY 1 and it's said that he leveled up amazingly fast) than on what their specific levels are. Levels, like all stats-related and gameplay-related stuff in the .hack games, are not accurate towards the story. They can't possibly be. They just give us a general idea.
It's like raising Pokemon: You go to a high level enemy with the low-level pokemon coming out first. You immediatly switch it out for a stronger fighter. After the battle, both the weak and strong pokemon get exp. It's the same here.
... um?!? What on earth does that mean?! Are you suggesting that it's extremely easy to reach level 99 in 'The World,' and the idea is that once you reach that level you make a new character and start playing him, and so on and on and on? That's... an incredibly horrible idea, I'd rather think that 'The World' is such a huge game that no one has EVER reached level 99, although maybe by .hack//DUSK . Plus is there ever any indication giving in ANY of the games that players can have more than one character at a time?
Other than administrators and hackers and so on, of course. I mean, I imagine you COULD do that if you wanted, one way or another - buy more than one account, or whatever. But I don't see any evidence anywhere that the game simply allows you to have two characters at the same time. (Although I'd actually hope that it DOES have that feature, as having only one character in an online game is pretty dull and annoyingly limiting. But my personal feelings don't have anything to do with it.) Instead, there are things like character upgrades, like with Balmung having his character's avatar upgraded as part of an event or somesuch. However, in the case of Ouka, she is given an entirely new character calss for an event, and I think it's said that she had to delete her old character and start over with a new character in the Werewolf class. So that suggests you can only have one character at a time, surely, if she was already a famous legendary character in her old template... or maybe she became famous and legendary after getting the Werewolf template? Or maybe her stuff carried over, that'd explain why she's still super-high level with her Werewolf character if she was already famously strong before that? I dunno. Very confusing stuff. :/
Regardless, I disagree 100% that leveling up doesn't take years of hard work. Balmung is one of the oldest players and he's level 60, and I highly doubt that he once had a previous character with a different name and so on who he eventually got up to level 99 and thus started over with a new character who he has by now ALSO raised up to a rather high level - Balmung, level 60. It makes 'The World' sound SO petty and stupid. It should take a HUGE amount of time to reach max level, otherwise it's a very poor MMORPG indeed because it doesn't take too long before you've mastered the whole game and have no choice but to play with a maxed-out character and thus have no use for the EXP you rack up, or start the whole thing over again with a new character!
Definitely not. This is nothing like Pokemon at all. It's an MMORPG, not a pet-raising game.
For all we know, Sora could have also been doing the same. We only saw his back.
We saw his face, just like we saw Tokuoka's face He just kinda fell over and was still. I guess it's possible that he did the drooling and mumbling thing for a while and THEN he eventually passed out, since you can't be sure EXACTLY how much time passed between Sora being Data Drained and his player falling into a coma. The scene in the episode doesn't seem to indicate that it took long at all, though, unlike Tokuoka's being Data Drained. I certainly wouldn't imagine it would be long enough for him to have escaped by taking his helmet off or whatever, even if he had Mai's exceptional hearing What a strange, silly theory...
Morganna was not present with Skeith, only Tokuoka and Mai were, so the 'a' note is somewhat of an enigma with where it is heard. The reason why we believe this to be true is because it is the most likely theory that we've heard, and there are several facts to back it up.
Have you read ZERO? I haven't, hope to someday. .hack//ZERO goes into detail on that whole situation, so does IT explain anything about where the music note was coming from? Meh. Well, there aren't THAT many facts to back it up, and that idea contradicts a few things, so you can go on believing that if you like, but I think there's still a piece of the puzzle missing and you shouldn't be so quick to assume...
You mentioned about Tsukasa being succesfully Data Drained. You were still with the 'more-you-play-the-game-the-easier-it-is-to-data-drain-you-to-put-you-into-a-coma' theory, so I'm thinking that you implied that the reason Tsukasa wasn't comatose (PC and all) is because of his attitude and newbieness.
... Eh, what? No, the reason I implied that Tsukasa WAS comatose was because he probably WAS a pretty high level character, or if he wasn't, he could still have been playing the game for a while - at least he certainly had been playing for longer than Mai and Kite and Tokuoka played before THEY encountered Skeith! Which is the important part.
Tsukasa's character in The World not being frozen and inactive has nothing to do with it at all, I never mentioned that so why did you assume that's what I was implying?! The only reason Tsukasa was able to wander around in The World was because Morganna allowed him to do so after he was Data Drained, because she hoped to use him to corrupt and delete Aura. And if you DID think that's what I was saying, why didn't you explain THAT question (by talking about the reason Tsukasa was still able to move around in the game rather than just being sealed in storage somewhere) instead of going into stuff about Protect Break and the different types of Data Drain and so on? So insane...
Tsuakasa was data drained by Maha, an NPC. Surely the power of an NPC is limited!
... ahahaha.. do you realize what you're saying? Morganna is an NPC too
She's a NON PLAYER CHARACTER - she's a character who has no player. (Maybe what you meant to say rather than 'NPC' was something like 'minor character without battle skills' or something, like a shopkeeper, although I don't see any proof of that...) She's also an AI, like Macha and the other Phases, and the one in charge of Data Drain (although Aura also seems to be supposed to be able to Data Drain - the original plan was for Aura to Data Drain Morganna once the Phases had done their job, after all, and Aura was able to give Kite the power to Data Drain, so...). Morganna gave Data Drain to all the Phases (the Phases are only manifestations of Morganna's will, after all), and it seems that all the Phases are equally good at Data Draining. So why the heck wouldn't Macha be as good as Skeith is at Data Draining? They're both just Phases, the only difference is that Macha is choosing to disguise its true nature for the sake of tricking and manipulating Tsukasa (or something like that) with its cat form. If anything, Macha might be even BETTER at Data Draining than Skeith, since Macha has the additional power to generate Twilight Guardians who can also use weaker versions of Data Drain, an ability Skeith doesn't have.
... And anyway, I'm REALLY confused after what you said. Why would Macha's Data Drain being more 'limited' than Skeith's support YOUR side of the debate? Just gets more and more muddled the more I read...
So you see, it was truely you who read my post wrong. Touche.
.. Um, what? That certainly came out of the blue! o.o I didn't misread ANYTHING you wrote in your post (except the intent behind why you said some of those unrelated facts) And in this ENTIRE post I'm replying to now, you didn't mention anything you'd said that I didn't read or interpret correctly, all you did was continue to try to disprove the theory that Dry presented about how Data Drain works. You're the one who was mistaken in reading my post, as you made all those assumptions (some rather ridiculous) about what I did and didn't know, and ignored the main points of my post entirely.
Plus you're kinda misusing the word 'touché,' I think. It's generally used by people in an argument (or, more literally, in a fencing duel) who have just had their point utterly refuted or who have just been successfully criticized or exposed as a hypocrite. I should be the one saying it, if I actually believed that you'd really proven that I was the one doing the thing I'd accused you of doing.
Maybe it'd help if you read your own post once or twice again before submitting it?
You might spot a couple of inconsistencies. Oh well, no matter, and no harm done, and hopefully now you better understand the merits and flaws of both possible theories. Hn hn.
If Sora was Data Drained by a guardian, he def. wouldn't fall into a coma. Tsukasa 'died' as a result of the Guardian's data drain, so you see, it depends on who gets Data Drained by what.
Yes, I know Sora wouldn't go into a permanent coma if he was Data Drained by a Guardian. He would just be knocked out for a day or two, like Ginkan was. That's because Guardians have a weaker version of Data Drain than anyone else (except possibly Kite, since he also uses a Twilight Bracelet) has. I don't see how that somehow works better with your other ideas than with mine...
The reason why Morganna said that he was playing the game for too long is because he truly was. He was simply just playing it, he didn't really understand the depth of the Tsukasa situation. He thought of it as just a game. The amount of time you play the world has nothing to do with your data drain-age.
That's just the most obvious interpretation
I know that's the simple explanation for it - Morganna told Sora he'd been playing for so long as a way to mock him, to show him that no matter how strong he becomes he won't be safe from being hurt. That's OBVIOUS. I was just pointing out that, using the theory suggested by Dry in the beginning of this thread, that phrase takes on a double, and very sinister, meaning. You're not impressing me by assuming that I don't understand the basics of the situations. I already KNOW all about the standard, widely-accepted theories regarding Mai's extraordinary hearing protecting her and so on. I'm providing an alternative explanation, and you're doing a poor job of refuting it since you're basically just saying 'you're wrong because this is what I KNOW has to be true.' Just because you know the same common explanations I do for those situations doesn't say anything. You're just saying 'the amount of time you spend in the game has nothing to do with it' over and over again without actually proving or saying a damned thing except what's already been said. You're ASSUMING. If that's all you're going to do in this thread, why bother posting here? It IS a thread for theorizing on things, which is a good idea since it lets us re-address some of the things people have long assumed were facts in .hack even though there are plenty of alternate explanations for them which are pretty equally plausible.When posting theories, one must be able to back it up with facts. Also, the common reply to my comment is "Wha? Then why didn't Kite and co. fall into comas?" So I was replying before the question.
Well you wasted time doing that. That fact's already been gone over on this thread, and that situation was already explained and discussed in detail. Why would you assume that I didn't know that? So many assumptions...
If you haven't noticed, you're being quite rude. By posting on this board, I'm broadcasting my message to everyone, not just you. How am I supposed to know what you already 'know'?
Because this isn't a new thread and that very thing had already been discussed on this thread? If you're going to broadcast a message to everyone on the board that has absolutely nothing to do with the points I was trying to make, don't confuse me by making me think it's a direct answer.
Sorry if I offended you, though, I'm just baffled. Your reply to my post consisted mainly of backtracking and side-debates and the like.(1) Kite was chosen by Aura, Helba simply said that she believed that you were the right choice
Wrong. Orca was chosen by Aura. Aura gave the Book to Orca, NOT to Kite. Then Orca was Data Drained, and the Book was given to Kite, and when it seemed that Kite was about to be Data Drained by Skeith, THEN Helba stepped in - she threw her staff in front of Skeith, which caused Skeith to hesitate and either forced Kite to log out or gave him the ability to log out again or he just thought of it then or WHATEVER, but directly because of Helba Kite was able to escape Skeith. So the obvious question is, why didn't Helba save ORCA if she was able to save Kite? I don't buy the explanation that she just didn't arrive in time to save Orca, too easy. I think she was biding her time. Aura's the one who gave it to Orca, and who then guided Kite on his quest after Kite received it, but I think, at least on some level, Helba orchestrated the entire thing. If my theory IS correct, it certainly makes perfect sense why she would do such a thing - because Orca, an experienced player, was too easy of a target for Morganna, whereas Kite would be quite safe early on, even before using the Book of Twilight during his first battle with a Data Bug.
See: http://www.geocities.com/magicyellowsno ... ilight.jpg
Link doesn't work right now. I'll try again later or something..
At the end of //SIGN, Tsukasa is level 5 (the copy of Tsukasa in the games come from after //SIGN) Also, Orca is only level 50. That's only about half-way up! Note that at the end of the game, everyone was put into permanent comas, although they didn't last quite too long. It's true that around then all the characters should be around your level, but what if you're around level 70?
What the heck do you mean 'only level 50'? That's higher-level than most of the players in the game, surely! You don't get to be a legendary hero when you aren't one of the highest-level characters, methinks. But anyway, I didn't say you had to be level 99 (or whatever level Sora is. What level IS he when you recruit him at the end of QUARANTINE?) to be Data Drained
I just said that you had to have been playing for a rather long time, unlike Mai and Tokuoka and Kite. Seig was a pretty high-level character (I assume somewhere in the 40s or 50s, but there's no way of finding out as far as I know) based on descriptions of him and such, we KNOW Sora and Orca (and I'll ask again, what about Kazu?) are very high-level, and ... the Tsukasa information is interesting, though. How do you know Tsukasa is level 5 at the end of SIGN? That seems.. rather implausible indeed. The area Tsukasa and Mimiru first meet at is level 38 when you visit it in .hack//MUTATION. Yet Tsukasa and Mimiru meet at (what seems to be) the Gott chest, indicating that Tsukasa cleared the entire dungeon alone! Mimiru even comments on how strong he must be to be clearing a dungeon on his own, so he's probably many levels ABOVE 38 (if the in-game level of that dungeon is at all reliable, that is - .hack game info is notoriously corrupt with inaccuracies planted there to make the game better but which degarde the realism and consistency of the story). If Tsukasa was level 5, that dungeon would probably have to be level 1 or something, and even that would probably be a big challenge for a lone Wavemaster. And Mimiru would probably be level 2 or 3 or 4 at the start of SIGN... eh.. I just don't buy any of that... I'm sure those SIGN characters are at least level 20, and in-game evidence suggests that some (not counting the super-strong Crim and Sora) even go as high as the 40s and 50s... which is perfectly strong enough for Tsukasa, in my theory, to be vulnerable to Data Drain, if Sieg and Orca were.But, again, what's the source for Tsukasa being level 5? Are you assuming that because the Tsukasa copy you recruit at the end of QUARANTINE starts at level 5? (I haven't beaten QUARANTINE, so I didn't know that.) Still sounds VERY suspicious, it even is an in-game thing which contradicts something else from in the game. Plus there's no evidence that it's an exact copy, isn't it missing lots of things, like memories and such? And since it's a copy, it could be a lower-level version of the actual Tsukasa... *shrug* I just don't see that as concrete evidence, especially in light of Tsukasa apparently clearing an apparently level-38 dungeon in the beginning of SIGN... either that dungeon should be a lower level one and was raised for the sake of it not being too easy for that point in the game, or the Tsukasa copy you recruit at the end of QUARANTINE had his level lowered for some plot reason (like not being an exact copy of Tsukasa, and thus having lower stats) or just for the hell of it 'cause they didn't think about it much.. or something.. Confusing tidbit there, really. If it's true, it's pretty good evidence against my theory
If Tsukasa was a complete newbie in SIGN, he probably wouldn't be so vulnerable to Data Drain. But still, I'm suspicious about this... that just doesn't sound right, Tsukasa level 5 in SIGN... He certainly gave the impression of being somewhere in levels between Mimiru and Bear, and although he rarely fights much and isn't too impressive when he does, there are other explanations for that in each situation... BT seems more like a very low-level character than Tsukasa does, since BT relies on other characters for combat and for training and such, although she is pretty impressive when the battles do begin, casting giant shield spells and the like... it's all very confusing, even for someone like me who's thought about the levels of all the .hack characters a LOT...The point is, levels aren't the determining factor, how long you've played the game is
You could play the game for a year and be only at level 5 and you'd still be vulnerable to Data Drain. (And that COULD be the case with Tsukasa, since, as I mentioned, he doesn't seem to play The World to level up and adventure, he just plays it to get away. So he COULD have played for long enough to be vulnerable to DD, but he just still isn't especially strong. But, still.. level 5?! That's extreme.). And there's no specific mentioned length of time for how long you need to play to be vulnerable, just a general idea - so what if you ARE level only level 70 when your whole time gets Data Drained? Why the hell wouldn't THAT be high enough level (and, again, more importantly, long enough time - Kite will have played the game for eight or nine months by the end of QUARANTINE. I imagine that would probably be more than long enough for him to become vulnerable to DD, he just has the Bracelet to protect him and his allies by that point), when I've already pointed out that Orca is vulnerable at a 'mere' level 50? The problem is that the whole leveling system is pretty screwed up, no way should you be able to get up to HALF as strong as Kite and his team reaches in only 9 months, not when someone like Balmung who's been playing for YEARS is only level 60. So it's best to rely a bit more on how people treat high-level characters (for example, Sieg must be at least somewhat high-level since he gets called 'awesome' at The World in LIMINALITY 1 and it's said that he leveled up amazingly fast) than on what their specific levels are. Levels, like all stats-related and gameplay-related stuff in the .hack games, are not accurate towards the story. They can't possibly be. They just give us a general idea.It's like raising Pokemon: You go to a high level enemy with the low-level pokemon coming out first. You immediatly switch it out for a stronger fighter. After the battle, both the weak and strong pokemon get exp. It's the same here.
... um?!? What on earth does that mean?! Are you suggesting that it's extremely easy to reach level 99 in 'The World,' and the idea is that once you reach that level you make a new character and start playing him, and so on and on and on? That's... an incredibly horrible idea, I'd rather think that 'The World' is such a huge game that no one has EVER reached level 99, although maybe by .hack//DUSK . Plus is there ever any indication giving in ANY of the games that players can have more than one character at a time?
Other than administrators and hackers and so on, of course. I mean, I imagine you COULD do that if you wanted, one way or another - buy more than one account, or whatever. But I don't see any evidence anywhere that the game simply allows you to have two characters at the same time. (Although I'd actually hope that it DOES have that feature, as having only one character in an online game is pretty dull and annoyingly limiting. But my personal feelings don't have anything to do with it.) Instead, there are things like character upgrades, like with Balmung having his character's avatar upgraded as part of an event or somesuch. However, in the case of Ouka, she is given an entirely new character calss for an event, and I think it's said that she had to delete her old character and start over with a new character in the Werewolf class. So that suggests you can only have one character at a time, surely, if she was already a famous legendary character in her old template... or maybe she became famous and legendary after getting the Werewolf template? Or maybe her stuff carried over, that'd explain why she's still super-high level with her Werewolf character if she was already famously strong before that? I dunno. Very confusing stuff. :/Regardless, I disagree 100% that leveling up doesn't take years of hard work. Balmung is one of the oldest players and he's level 60, and I highly doubt that he once had a previous character with a different name and so on who he eventually got up to level 99 and thus started over with a new character who he has by now ALSO raised up to a rather high level - Balmung, level 60. It makes 'The World' sound SO petty and stupid. It should take a HUGE amount of time to reach max level, otherwise it's a very poor MMORPG indeed because it doesn't take too long before you've mastered the whole game and have no choice but to play with a maxed-out character and thus have no use for the EXP you rack up, or start the whole thing over again with a new character!
Definitely not. This is nothing like Pokemon at all. It's an MMORPG, not a pet-raising game.
For all we know, Sora could have also been doing the same. We only saw his back.
We saw his face, just like we saw Tokuoka's face
He just kinda fell over and was still. I guess it's possible that he did the drooling and mumbling thing for a while and THEN he eventually passed out, since you can't be sure EXACTLY how much time passed between Sora being Data Drained and his player falling into a coma. The scene in the episode doesn't seem to indicate that it took long at all, though, unlike Tokuoka's being Data Drained. I certainly wouldn't imagine it would be long enough for him to have escaped by taking his helmet off or whatever, even if he had Mai's exceptional hearing What a strange, silly theory...Morganna was not present with Skeith, only Tokuoka and Mai were, so the 'a' note is somewhat of an enigma with where it is heard. The reason why we believe this to be true is because it is the most likely theory that we've heard, and there are several facts to back it up.
Have you read ZERO? I haven't, hope to someday. .hack//ZERO goes into detail on that whole situation, so does IT explain anything about where the music note was coming from? Meh. Well, there aren't THAT many facts to back it up, and that idea contradicts a few things, so you can go on believing that if you like, but I think there's still a piece of the puzzle missing and you shouldn't be so quick to assume...
You mentioned about Tsukasa being succesfully Data Drained. You were still with the 'more-you-play-the-game-the-easier-it-is-to-data-drain-you-to-put-you-into-a-coma' theory, so I'm thinking that you implied that the reason Tsukasa wasn't comatose (PC and all) is because of his attitude and newbieness.
... Eh, what? No, the reason I implied that Tsukasa WAS comatose was because he probably WAS a pretty high level character, or if he wasn't, he could still have been playing the game for a while - at least he certainly had been playing for longer than Mai and Kite and Tokuoka played before THEY encountered Skeith! Which is the important part.
Tsukasa's character in The World not being frozen and inactive has nothing to do with it at all, I never mentioned that so why did you assume that's what I was implying?!
The only reason Tsukasa was able to wander around in The World was because Morganna allowed him to do so after he was Data Drained, because she hoped to use him to corrupt and delete Aura. And if you DID think that's what I was saying, why didn't you explain THAT question (by talking about the reason Tsukasa was still able to move around in the game rather than just being sealed in storage somewhere) instead of going into stuff about Protect Break and the different types of Data Drain and so on? So insane...Tsuakasa was data drained by Maha, an NPC. Surely the power of an NPC is limited!
... ahahaha.. do you realize what you're saying? Morganna is an NPC too
She's a NON PLAYER CHARACTER - she's a character who has no player. (Maybe what you meant to say rather than 'NPC' was something like 'minor character without battle skills' or something, like a shopkeeper, although I don't see any proof of that...) She's also an AI, like Macha and the other Phases, and the one in charge of Data Drain (although Aura also seems to be supposed to be able to Data Drain - the original plan was for Aura to Data Drain Morganna once the Phases had done their job, after all, and Aura was able to give Kite the power to Data Drain, so...). Morganna gave Data Drain to all the Phases (the Phases are only manifestations of Morganna's will, after all), and it seems that all the Phases are equally good at Data Draining. So why the heck wouldn't Macha be as good as Skeith is at Data Draining? They're both just Phases, the only difference is that Macha is choosing to disguise its true nature for the sake of tricking and manipulating Tsukasa (or something like that) with its cat form. If anything, Macha might be even BETTER at Data Draining than Skeith, since Macha has the additional power to generate Twilight Guardians who can also use weaker versions of Data Drain, an ability Skeith doesn't have. ... And anyway, I'm REALLY confused after what you said. Why would Macha's Data Drain being more 'limited' than Skeith's support YOUR side of the debate?
Just gets more and more muddled the more I read...So you see, it was truely you who read my post wrong. Touche.
.. Um, what? That certainly came out of the blue! o.o I didn't misread ANYTHING you wrote in your post (except the intent behind why you said some of those unrelated facts)
And in this ENTIRE post I'm replying to now, you didn't mention anything you'd said that I didn't read or interpret correctly, all you did was continue to try to disprove the theory that Dry presented about how Data Drain works. You're the one who was mistaken in reading my post, as you made all those assumptions (some rather ridiculous) about what I did and didn't know, and ignored the main points of my post entirely.Plus you're kinda misusing the word 'touché,' I think. It's generally used by people in an argument (or, more literally, in a fencing duel) who have just had their point utterly refuted or who have just been successfully criticized or exposed as a hypocrite. I should be the one saying it, if I actually believed that you'd really proven that I was the one doing the thing I'd accused you of doing.
Maybe it'd help if you read your own post once or twice again before submitting it?
You might spot a couple of inconsistencies. Oh well, no matter, and no harm done, and hopefully now you better understand the merits and flaws of both possible theories. Hn hn.
Sora is level 90....(or whatever level Sora is. What level IS he when you recruit him at the end of QUARANTINE?)
Yeah, the Tsukasa you recruit at the end of Quarantine is level 5. But...yeah, exactly what you said. A Level 5 Wavemaster, making it to the bottom of a Level 38 dungeon alone? Not likely. It's more likely a cousin of the "fake" Tsukasa AIs created by Morganna, the ones you saw floating around Net Slum in .hack//SIGN.But, again, what's the source for Tsukasa being level 5?
His point is a valid one. In Episode 3 of Dusk, that's how Shugo levels up; he sits back and lets Rena, Ouka, and Mirelle bludgeon mid to high-level monsters while he sits back and swings his blades around. He still gains levels, despite the fact that he never actually ATTACKED anything himself.It's like raising Pokemon: You go to a high level enemy with the low-level pokemon coming out first. You immediatly switch it out for a stronger fighter. After the battle, both the weak and strong pokemon get exp. It's the same here.
... um?!? What on earth does that mean?! Are you suggesting that it's extremely easy to reach level 99 in 'The World,' and the idea is that once you reach that level you make a new character and start playing him, and so on and on and on?
And nor do I think he was suggesting it was 'extremely easy' to advance to Level 99. Gaining levels shouldn't be too hard in the beginning, but as your level rises higher and higher, getting experience becomes increasingly difficult; when you're Level 50 or 60, you're high enough level that you can handle just about anything on the lower servers, and gaining levels is probably more difficult than it's worth. By the time you're Level 90, like Sora, it probably becomes difficult to gain decent amounts of experience - or challenge - for fighting ANYTHING. If you reach Level 99, you probably would eventually put that PC on ice and start playing again from Level 1, just because there were no challenges LEFT.
True enough; everything in the world that's not a PC can technically be lumped into the class 'NPC' - monsters, shopkeepers, Aura, Morganna. Nonetheless, I'd say there is some difference between the first two and the last two in terms of power.Morganna is an NPC too She's a NON PLAYER CHARACTER - she's a character who has no player.
But Maha IS a Phase, regardless of the form she wears; a rose by any other name can still prick you with its thorns just as painfully. Maha - still a Phase, whether she's dressed up in a cat suit or not - Data Drained Tsukasa. Tsukasa did go into a coma. It's just that instead of shunting him into Morganna's Big Bin o' DD Victims and being put on ice like all the rest of the DD victims, Morganna ALLOWED Tsukasa to remain ambulatory in the World, so that Tsukasa's horrible cloud of soul-crushing angst could corrupt and destroy Aura.
And...it's nice to see debate and discussion going on.
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MasterYata
- Lowbie
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:10 am
If Tsukasa was level 5, and in a lvl 1, 2, 3..etc. dungeon, then what would Mimiru be doing there, besides getting treasure to sell for cash (I've done this a few times on the games)? So this should point to Tsukasa being at a higher level, closer to Mimiru or Bear (are Mimiru and Bear even close on the level scale?)
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thedudewhosadude
- Legend
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 8:13 pm
well, i'm still sticking to Tsukasa being level 5. Note that Mimiru actually played the game, while Tsukasa tried to avoid fighting as much as possible. Also note that the dungeon could have been a different level than it is now, as the system has gone through many changes.
You're only young once, but you're NEVER too old to be immature.
I still say that you'd have to give Tsukasa some credit over a few things in the game.
1. Even if it was for a short period of time, remember he was able to successfully defend in a fight against a Blade User. One should take in mind the power levels between mages and swordsman during physical combat.
2. I remember that dungeon in the game. I remember HATING it, even though I was a level above its level as well. It was a pain in the ass. ._.;;
I can attest to the fact that if someone doesn't play a game too much, but they do play it for awhile- they may not be a high level, but they may be a /decent/ level. I certainly don't see Tsukasa being as high level as Mimiru or whatnot, but I think he's more than just level 5.
1. Even if it was for a short period of time, remember he was able to successfully defend in a fight against a Blade User. One should take in mind the power levels between mages and swordsman during physical combat.
2. I remember that dungeon in the game. I remember HATING it, even though I was a level above its level as well. It was a pain in the ass. ._.;;
I can attest to the fact that if someone doesn't play a game too much, but they do play it for awhile- they may not be a high level, but they may be a /decent/ level. I certainly don't see Tsukasa being as high level as Mimiru or whatnot, but I think he's more than just level 5.
Budget Zen: When you see something so stupid that your mind goes blank rather than try to rationalize it.