Senses in The World

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:14 pm

This is something that's been bugging me for a while. In SIGN it's strongly implied (if not outright stated) that users can only see and hear things in The World. But in the games Elk is a big fan of an item called "Aromatic Grass." How exactly is it aromatic, then? In an older thread someone mentioned that in DUSK Shuugo says that he can feel a rug or something - I haven't read the manga myself, so I don't really know. It seems that there's been a major upgrade since SIGN, but just how far can the technology go? If you have all five senses in the game, just how do you know it IS a game? I suppose it's a question of "if it looks/feels/smells/tastes/sounds real, is it reality?"

End of a Shadow · Post by **End of a Shadow** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:20 pm

Well in a way its sorta like the Matrix, its all in your head. You body tells you mind what you see, touch, sense, taste, feel, and hear....and don't forget the year that .hack// is after 2007 but after that it was .hack//sign and not much senses went on, except for Tsukasa which she was in a coma but nonetheless everyone else couldn't feel objects and such, just see and hear basically. But Dusk takes place to my knowledge over 4 years from Sign so maybe they did upgrade. Both ALTIMIT and The World are mentioned that they have been upgraded in the games so perhaps the evolution of gaming had included all 5 senses.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:36 pm

It just seems like a full-immersion VR game is asking for lawsuits. I mean, you're sitting at your terminal playing the game, when your oven explodes. So now you're jumping around in the World as you slowly burn to death - and you DON'T REALIZE IT. You'd be completely cut off from warning from the outside, so even if a firefighter broke in and tried to save you, he couldn't possibly shake you "awake."

Gray · Post by **Gray** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:40 pm

That assumes that the sensations are complete, and entrancing to the point that they override all contact with reality. Somehow I don't think that would happen, especially as apparently a controller is still used.

Invisible Egg! · Post by **Invisible Egg!** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 7:38 pm

Players of The World (except Tsukasa) only see and hear the game environment. They wear headsets, not bodysuits.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:02 pm

In SIGN, yeah. What we're saying is that a massive upgrade must have occured since then, allowing players more senses than just hearing and sight. Maybe they do wear bodysuits in DUSK. Similar answer to you, Gray: they use those PS2 controllers in LIMINALITY; there may be a new system of movement later. Though that actually raises a point: the games and LIMINALITY are nearly simultaneous, and from what we see from Mai playing there are no amenities for smell. Maybe Elk is just faking it? Or maybe it's an add-on that you have to buy separately ... I heard someone mention that Elk was a rich kid.

Guynietoren · Post by **Guynietoren** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:52 pm

When you have a monopoly, it's not of any great importance to put something new on the market.

What would be cool is being able to play games while you sleep. Ya know, insted of dreaming. A house fire would wake you up from that, right? No more losing sleep over playing games.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:05 pm

What an idea! I have no idea how it would actually work, but it's fascinating. A dreaming game ... it would certainly be different from the waking-world. Anybody here read The Sandman? Neil Gaiman? It's a series of graphic novels that revolves (loosely) around the idea of an omnipotent being who actively controls the unconscious mind. Don't want to get off the topic, but it seems like there would be a connection: you "feel" things in a dream but they aren't real sensations. Everything seems hazy and vague afterwards, and I expect that's probably how it would be in the World.

Rubedo · Post by **Rubedo** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:04 am

Cobweb wrote:Maybe they do wear bodysuits in DUSK.

They use the PS2 controllers and VR goggles in Dusk, just like in Liminality. You can clearly see this in the manga.

and from what we see from Mai playing there are no amenities for smell. Maybe Elk is just faking it?

You better not be implying, what I think you are. Because, Mai and Elk clearly say, that they simply collect the item, "Aromatic Grass". And clearly state that it can not, be used for anything.

I heard someone mention that Elk was a rich kid.

I highly doubt that Elk is rich. Because they don't imply that he is, anywhere in the game.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:58 am

My apologies, Rubedo. I thrive on wild speculation, and as you could tell I'm more familiar with SIGN than DUSK or the games. Why, why did I choose a GameCube over a PS2? Why? I pretty much depend on other forum-goers like yourself for information, and it's not always reliable. So: thanks for the correction!

Rubedo · Post by **Rubedo** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:37 am

Oh, no need to apologize, Cobweb. Heh, if anyone should apologize, it should be me, for the way I came off sounding rude. But anyway. To the topic at hand.

It's possible, that how Shugo can feel the map.... I believe it was a map? Anyway. They could be using gloves, that have sensors in them. So while they are using the PS2 controller, they can feel the item as well.

Elk · Post by **Elk** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:38 am

Rubedo wrote: It's possible, that how Shugo can feel the map.... I believe it was a map. Anyway. They could be using gloves, that have sensors in them. So while they are using the PS2 controller, they can feel the item as well.

Maybe the controller has a ruble pack installed, or a heat sensor..... sort of like gamecube controllers.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:44 am

Hmm ... interesting idea. You'd be running about in Dun Loireag "feeling" a sword grip in your hand, but at the same time be aware of the fact that you're really holding the game controller. That would be an incredibly disturbing sensation. It reminds me of another thread that spoke of phantom feelings, the pins and needles amputees are said to undergo in missing limbs. I personally do not see the attraction, but then - I think perhaps I'd be willing to if I could be a Wavemaster!

Xeno · Post by **Xeno** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:27 pm

and from what we see from Mai playing there are no amenities for smell. Maybe Elk is just faking it?

There is a reasons that Mia collecta Aromatic grass....sense you don't seem to know I assume you haven't seen all of //SIGN... Elk collects the grass simply because Mia likes it... Assuming the items has a smell just because its called Aromatic is ridiculous....thats just the name that the prgrammers gave it...It has no use in the game...unless you want to sell it for 5GP.

Maybe the controller has a ruble pack installed, or a heat sensor..... sort of like gamecube controllers

About 2 years ago I read an article about a new type of mouse that could simulate the sense of touch. When a user moved the pointer over an object on screen, assuming this object was programmed to do so, the mouse would simulate the texture of that object. Several object were available at the time...including a basketball....So you would literally be able to feel the bumps on the ball by simply moving your mouse over an object on the screen. It was suppose to revolutionize the gaming and internet industry....but as you can see....There is no sign of it whatsoever anymore. I haven't heard anything else about it. But its possible that the controllers used in //DUSK have this technology (or something similar) installed....we could also assume that the VR goggles could fool the brain into thinking it was feeling something... kinda like when you think you get stung by a bee....the body immediatly reacts by swelling and leaving a bump...but in reality you haven't been stung by anything at all. I've said this millions of times...Human kind is only limited by what it can comprehend.

Rogue_Noir · Post by **Rogue_Noir** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:30 pm

I think the VR goggles are there not just to provide sight and sound to the user but also allows interaction with the user's nerve impulses in a minor way. When your teleport into, say, Dun Loireag or Mac Anu you can be made to have a distinct "feel" of being in that place. In ep 14, Mimiru said she could feel the sweat from Bear's hands.. it could be the electrical signals from the headset simulating the "feel" of sweat.

When one picks up Aromatic Grass, I think the person would receive electrical stimulation that would amount to "smell". The creator Harold Hyeck basically intended to connect people's minds to The World, not just the senses of sight and hearing.