Can they...?

Duskino · Post by **Duskino** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:26 pm

This has been bugging me for a while, but...

Do you think the AIs in "The World" can feel, like Tsukasa was able to? Such as Mia; if she could 'feel' things, wouldn't that kind of make her wonder about her PC, since she thought she was a normal player? Or Aura too... Since she had to put up with a lot of crap...

I would say no, because they're data, and I don't think data would be able to feel, but I want to say yes because... Well, Tsukasa could, and the AIs are part of the game.

x.x;

greensteeldragon · Post by **greensteeldragon** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:01 pm

I agree with you they are just AI's and/or data in a game. Where Tsukasa is a real person in the game trapped (as they say so often on the show),
but there can be error in AIs to think and to justify right and wrong just like in many sci-fi robot movies. That is just my way of looking at it so I don't feel sorry for killing monsters too think they maybe the same way!

Tsunami the Silver Dragon · Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:04 pm

I say that they can. If the world (this one) were a game then how would we know about it? There is no way. We ourselves could just be AI's. So if such is a fact then that would mean that there is, in actuality, no diffrence between reality or fantasy nor is there a diffrence between real intelligence or artificial intelligence.

How can you explain that you exist? Maybe we don't exist.

P.S. I don't believe that Mia is an AI.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:29 am

There are so many references to the various senses in everyday life ... I think Mia would get more suspicious if she *couldn't* sense things. Like you said, she probably believes everyone else to be just like her. And that means if she couldn't feel things she'd assume nobody else could either. And that means she'd get rather confused whenever someone mentioned a smell or a touch.

CRtwenty · Post by **CRtwenty** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:52 am

They can, as Maha seems to scream in pain when she gets zapped during //SIGN... but there is no telling if the sensations are identical to the sensations that we attribute to things like "pain".

thedudewhosadude · Post by **thedudewhosadude** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:25 am

maybe, maybe pain sensors are programmed into them....

Rubedo · Post by **Rubedo** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:41 am

I don't see why they wouldn't. I mean, if Mia can feel embarrassed, when you give her some Airomatic Grass in the game, and not to mention when Elk said he liked her. Then I don't see why she wouldn't feel pain as well.

Junko · Post by **Junko** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:41 am

Aren't traits transfered to the hourou AIs from the PCs? So, if Tsukasa and others could feel pain, I think they would have picked that up.... ne?

CRtwenty · Post by **CRtwenty** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:04 am

That was the case with Aura, I don't know about any of the other AI's... like I said before, I'm pretty sure they can feel something similar to pain, or an equivelent of it. But I doubt it is the same as what we feel.

Duskino · Post by **Duskino** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:55 pm

Hmm, now that I think about it...

Maybe "The World" is advanced enough to give those capabilities to AIs... since Mia does sence emotion (even if she's confused about them); and Maha did gain a friendly feeling over Tsukasa, ignorring Morganna's orders, and being attacked by the Guardians...

But like CR said, maybe their 'pain' isn't the same as our pain... Or their emotions as well. If Mia liked Elk back, hypothetically speaking, possibly her feeling of "liking" someone isn't the same as a real person's "liking"...

Though, Aura never acted or seemed like she had any emotion or feeling of "The World". At least to me, it didn't. "Hoo, look, I'm awake. Ooh! here's a book. Aw, dang, I'm in segments now. GET THEM BACK PLZ!!" x.X;

FireDraconian · Post by **FireDraconian** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:00 pm

How would you define "our pain" and "their pain"? How would you define pain itself, really? An unpleasant sensation? After all, pain is only there as an indicator that something is wrong. Why wouldn't a computer program have that? It's the same thing, even if the mechanics are different.

thedudewhosadude · Post by **thedudewhosadude** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:12 pm

Pain as wrong? I'm afraid that statement peeves me. Pain in nessecary for growth. Pain is nessecary for life. How do you know you're still alive without pain? How do we know that right now we're alive? It's all what we're told to believe. Pain is like darkness. You must go throught the darkness (pain) to get to the light (evolving/developing). Lab mice get electrocuted once they make a wrong turn in a maze. From this pain they learn the correct way of navigation.

Cobweb · Post by **Cobweb** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:25 pm

Pain is good in that it contributes to growth, but biologically speaking pain is an indicator of some kind of problem. I believe that's what FireDraconian meant ... maybe we should all specify if we're referring to emotional pain or physical pain.

Duskino · Post by **Duskino** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:35 pm

FireDraconian wrote:How would you define "our pain" and "their pain"?

Eh, yeah, that kind of hit me after I left class today. *shrug* Dunno. It might be different in some wierd... odd... way...

FireDraconian · Post by **FireDraconian** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:03 am

thedudewhosadude wrote:Pain as wrong? I'm afraid that statement peeves me. Pain in nessecary for growth. Pain is nessecary for life. How do you know you're still alive without pain? How do we know that right now we're alive? It's all what we're told to believe. Pain is like darkness. You must go throught the darkness (pain) to get to the light (evolving/developing). Lab mice get electrocuted once they make a wrong turn in a maze. From this pain they learn the correct way of navigation.

Like he said, I mean biologically (or electronically, in the AI's case) speaking. When you feel pain, it's not because you did something good. It's because something is wrong. If you burn yourself, you feel pain. If you cut yourself, pain. Injury = pain. Strain a muscle? Pain. Etc etc etc.

And there are plenty of ways to know you are alive without pain. Any emotion at all, for example. Happiness. Ever heard of it? And shocking lab mice so they "learn" is, in my opinion, morally wrong. That's not learning, that's developing a conditioned response. Like brainwashing. You don't have to feel pain to learn, to develop, to be alive.