I finally watched the last episode of //SIGN tonight and when Skeith appeared I felt something... A hate... of Morganna....
For a long time I have had the ability to feel others emotions but most times it doesn't work. But when it does it isn't limited to anything! Books, movies, games, anime... I could feel it then too...
That is when all of these thoughts clashed into my head all at once...
Maybe Skeith isn't the only one... Maybe all the phases are being used as well!
I'm sorry if this may seem completely insane to most of you but I feel as if I might have stumbled on to something huge....
Emotions felt! Skeith being used?
-
Tsunami the Silver Dragon
- Player Character
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:07 am
Emotions felt! Skeith being used?
"For all the Dreamers out there, our planet's dream isn't over yet."
"Jill, this is for you."
"Jill, this is for you."
-
Tsunami the Silver Dragon
- Player Character
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:07 am
-
thedudewhosadude
- Legend
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 8:13 pm
-
Tsunami the Silver Dragon
- Player Character
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:07 am
-
thedudewhosadude
- Legend
- Posts: 1462
- Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 8:13 pm
Also, yes. Harald essentialy had initial control over her, but then he allowed her to become independent. He also wanted to integrate 'wavering' (http://www.geocities.com/magicyellowsno ... vering.jpg) into Morganna, which he did, so she had somewhat of a restraint of emotions.
You're only young once, but you're NEVER too old to be immature.
Hm... I just feel something.
You know, the Phase are used by Morganna as a weapon.
But, originally, the phase are used to gather Human reaction.
Ex : Skeith, human reaction of death....
what Harald want to gather? death just game over isn't scared thing. Harald wouldn't understand the true meaning of death in this way.
I just thought that, the phase has each own weapon to attack.
???
and more...
Cubia didn't attack Helba?
And I think, even Kite is a part of the system... Lios can't delete him.
Why would Cubia search after Kite?
Is it because morganna corrupted it?
or because Kite is illegal (annoy the system)?
You know, the Phase are used by Morganna as a weapon.
But, originally, the phase are used to gather Human reaction.
Ex : Skeith, human reaction of death....
what Harald want to gather? death just game over isn't scared thing. Harald wouldn't understand the true meaning of death in this way.
I just thought that, the phase has each own weapon to attack.
???
and more...
Cubia didn't attack Helba?
And I think, even Kite is a part of the system... Lios can't delete him.
Why would Cubia search after Kite?
Is it because morganna corrupted it?
or because Kite is illegal (annoy the system)?
Nothing takes the past away, like the future
Nothing makes the darkness go, like the light
You're shelter from the storm
Give me comfort in your arm
Nothing makes the darkness go, like the light
You're shelter from the storm
Give me comfort in your arm
Death, and the fear of it is one of our oldest, and greatest emotions. As Harald was attempting to make an A.I. that thought identically to humans, then he would need this emotion.
Besides, it's not like they actually were supposed to cause these emotions, more like they would simply find it's "code" inside of the brain of the person they were copying.
Just like a computer, the files are there, even if they're not accessed. So they can still be copied.
Besides, it's not like they actually were supposed to cause these emotions, more like they would simply find it's "code" inside of the brain of the person they were copying.
Just like a computer, the files are there, even if they're not accessed. So they can still be copied.
"Hark he of Fair eyes, I am CRtwenty of the Azure Keyboard!"
-
brassmonkey
- Lowbie
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:28 am
It's a good question; why WOULD Harald only want data for stuff like fear of death and cruelty and revenge for Aura? I don't think an AI built from data like that would be a good thing...in fact, when you think about it, it's kind of surprising, given the input, that Aura didn't turn out as a psycho. There's got to be something missing from the equation...
Two possible explanations come to my mind.
1.) There were initially more Phases, but Morganna deleted them because they weren't well suited for her purposes. It said in the Easter Egg that Morganna deleted the code pertaining to her own maternal instinct; if the Phases represent aspects of Morganna's personality, then wouldn't Morganna's deletion of some parts of herself lead to a few Phases becoming defunct?
2.) There were only 8 Phases initially, but Harald hoped that by gathering all of this data to define negative emotions, he could also define, by contrast, what these emotions were NOT...i.e, the corresponding positive emotions. Evil tends to be more blatant than good, most of the time, so maybe he thought he could get a clearer definition of good by defining evil first.
Two possible explanations come to my mind.
1.) There were initially more Phases, but Morganna deleted them because they weren't well suited for her purposes. It said in the Easter Egg that Morganna deleted the code pertaining to her own maternal instinct; if the Phases represent aspects of Morganna's personality, then wouldn't Morganna's deletion of some parts of herself lead to a few Phases becoming defunct?
2.) There were only 8 Phases initially, but Harald hoped that by gathering all of this data to define negative emotions, he could also define, by contrast, what these emotions were NOT...i.e, the corresponding positive emotions. Evil tends to be more blatant than good, most of the time, so maybe he thought he could get a clearer definition of good by defining evil first.
Random thought: Maybe Aura was supposed to learn about the positive emotions while asleep. Morganna could link her growth to a happy-go-lucky person, and Aura would awaken already thinking good thoughts. As she matures, she could Data Drain portions of Morganna and learn about the negative emotions little by little. Such a system would be a relatively accurate simulation of human growth. Babies know little about the concepts of cruelty and revenge; those emotions are acquired and developed as we grow up. This would also explain why Aura grew in the desired fashion only when Tsukasa was happy.Dry wrote:It's a good question; why WOULD Harald only want data for stuff like fear of death and cruelty and revenge for Aura?
Edit: Stupid typos...
Last edited by Deimos on Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All right, I'll try and explain it a little better.
Dry was wondering why the Phases only gather data on negative emotions such as the fear of death, cruelty, and deceit. Obviously, data on positive emotions would also be needed to create an AI that can think like a human. My theory is that Aura was supposed to acquire data on the positive emotions while she was asleep during .hack//SIGN. Helba states that for the sleeping Aura to grow properly, the person she is connected to (Tsukasa) must be happy. I think that Morganna was supposed to find a user who was happy most of the time and use their positive thoughts and feelings to help Aura grow. After Morganna's malfunction, she decided to sabotage Aura's birth, and connected her to the most negative person she could find instead.
Provided everything went according to plan, Aura would be like an innocent child when she wakes up. If her growth was connected to the right person, she would know little, if anything, about negative emotions like jealousy. The task of gathering information on those dark emotions would belong to the Phases. The data collected by the Phases would be stored within Morganna, until she decides that enough has been collected. At that point, Aura would Data Drain Morganna and absorb her piece by piece, gathering her mother's emotion data during the process. Once Aura has all the data, she would be born as the Ultimate AI, able to think like a human and experience the full range of human emotions.
That process is pretty close to how humans grow, slowly learning new things as they grow up. We aren't born with all the information we have as adults, we have to get it by experiencing things for ourselves. Harald wanted his Ultimate AI to be as human-like as possible, so that system of growth makes sense.
Dry was wondering why the Phases only gather data on negative emotions such as the fear of death, cruelty, and deceit. Obviously, data on positive emotions would also be needed to create an AI that can think like a human. My theory is that Aura was supposed to acquire data on the positive emotions while she was asleep during .hack//SIGN. Helba states that for the sleeping Aura to grow properly, the person she is connected to (Tsukasa) must be happy. I think that Morganna was supposed to find a user who was happy most of the time and use their positive thoughts and feelings to help Aura grow. After Morganna's malfunction, she decided to sabotage Aura's birth, and connected her to the most negative person she could find instead.
Provided everything went according to plan, Aura would be like an innocent child when she wakes up. If her growth was connected to the right person, she would know little, if anything, about negative emotions like jealousy. The task of gathering information on those dark emotions would belong to the Phases. The data collected by the Phases would be stored within Morganna, until she decides that enough has been collected. At that point, Aura would Data Drain Morganna and absorb her piece by piece, gathering her mother's emotion data during the process. Once Aura has all the data, she would be born as the Ultimate AI, able to think like a human and experience the full range of human emotions.
That process is pretty close to how humans grow, slowly learning new things as they grow up. We aren't born with all the information we have as adults, we have to get it by experiencing things for ourselves. Harald wanted his Ultimate AI to be as human-like as possible, so that system of growth makes sense.
That's a very interesting theory...I like it. It fits with what I've observed of the series.
But it gives rise, at least in my mind, to a troubling question...
Was Morganna's 'malfunction' really an accident?
I'm starting to wonder. It stated that Morganna started to act up when Harald tried to introduce 'wavering' into her AI...it was an attempt to simulate human style ambiguity in decision making. It was using data from chaotic systems (weather, for instance) as data to weight Morganna's decision processes with. Unfortunately, chaotic systems tend to have an 'inertia' of sorts...even a minute change tends to feed on itself, rapidly snowballing. So once Morganna started going bad, she just got worse and worse.
Alone, it doesn't look that suspicious...but assuming you have a situation like Deimos described, in which Morganna is also the repository for all the negative emotional data gathered by the Phases. Is it just me, or does it seem like a bit of a bad idea to have the 'mother' AI also being the repository for all the negative emotional data gathered by the 8 Phases from throughout the World? It could be that this data was the 'push' - the minor change - that caused Morganna to start going bad. And as I've stated, such changes in chaotic systems tend to feed on themselves.
Basically, it seems to me like Harald DELIBERATELY set up Morganna to where she would eventually destabilize. He had to know about the tendencies of chaotic systems to even attempt to program something like wavering. Now, it's likely that Harald didn't anticipate just how spectacularly wrong Morganna would go, but I do think he programmed instability into Morganna on purpose...perhaps in an attempt to emulate the phase of rebellion that teenagers go through before they leave their parents.
Maybe I'm just reading too much into it. But Deimos's theory fits the observed facts too well for me NOT to consider it as a likely truth (at least until some evidence is raised to disprove it)...and if that's the case, it seems VERY suspicious to me that Harald both put a random element into Morganna's decision processes AND made her the keeper of all that negative emotional data.
But it gives rise, at least in my mind, to a troubling question...
Was Morganna's 'malfunction' really an accident?
I'm starting to wonder. It stated that Morganna started to act up when Harald tried to introduce 'wavering' into her AI...it was an attempt to simulate human style ambiguity in decision making. It was using data from chaotic systems (weather, for instance) as data to weight Morganna's decision processes with. Unfortunately, chaotic systems tend to have an 'inertia' of sorts...even a minute change tends to feed on itself, rapidly snowballing. So once Morganna started going bad, she just got worse and worse.
Alone, it doesn't look that suspicious...but assuming you have a situation like Deimos described, in which Morganna is also the repository for all the negative emotional data gathered by the Phases. Is it just me, or does it seem like a bit of a bad idea to have the 'mother' AI also being the repository for all the negative emotional data gathered by the 8 Phases from throughout the World? It could be that this data was the 'push' - the minor change - that caused Morganna to start going bad. And as I've stated, such changes in chaotic systems tend to feed on themselves.
Basically, it seems to me like Harald DELIBERATELY set up Morganna to where she would eventually destabilize. He had to know about the tendencies of chaotic systems to even attempt to program something like wavering. Now, it's likely that Harald didn't anticipate just how spectacularly wrong Morganna would go, but I do think he programmed instability into Morganna on purpose...perhaps in an attempt to emulate the phase of rebellion that teenagers go through before they leave their parents.
Maybe I'm just reading too much into it. But Deimos's theory fits the observed facts too well for me NOT to consider it as a likely truth (at least until some evidence is raised to disprove it)...and if that's the case, it seems VERY suspicious to me that Harald both put a random element into Morganna's decision processes AND made her the keeper of all that negative emotional data.